International Bon Vivant and Raconteur ([info]nick_kaufmann) wrote,
@ 2008-09-03 23:14:00
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Entry tags:politics

Giuliani and Palin at the RNC
Rudy Giuliani's speech did not start off well. It was awkward and at times seemed bitter, like he still couldn't understand why he wasn't the nominee. He seemed overwhelmed by the crowd. He made a major fumble in dissing Hillary Clinton, considering how hard the Republicans have been courting her supporters. But by the end he seemed to hit his stride and find his comfort zone. Still, not a great speech overall. But when he said, "How dare they ask if Sarah Palin has enough time to raise her kids and govern at the same time? When have they ever asked a man that?" it was electrifying. I can guarantee you have never heard those words at a Republican National Convention before!

But tonight was really Sarah Palin's night. This was her chance to not only let people get to know her, but to win over the naysayers. And she knocked it out of the fucking ballpark. (Though once again she brought up the "I said thanks but no thanks to the bridge to nowhere" line, which we now know ain't exactly true, and a lot of the same "Obama's going to raise your taxes" fearmongering. Also I never want to hear the words "hockey mom" again. Sorry, hockey moms.) She was strong, personable, compassionate, tough and humorous. Claiming that parents of special needs kids, as she is, would have an advocate in the White House was an amazing moment. She was also, at times, an effective attack dog, as vice presidents are often asked to be. She got off quite a few zingers. This vice presidential candidate is now, as they say, in play.

Though I got a little creeped out by a closeup of some angry-looking Aryan youth in the crowd chanting "USA! USA!" Yeesh!

And not to be mean or anything, but Bristol Palin's boyfriend had this "What have I gotten myself into?" look on his face the whole night. I actually feel kind of bad for him, even if by all accounts he's a douchebag. This was so not what he bargained for when he finally went all the way with his girlfriend.




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[info]alexkaufmann
2008-09-04 03:21 am UTC (link)
I thought her speech was excellent as well.

But belief in creationism and a desire to ban books disqualifies her from my vote.

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[info]nick_kaufmann
2008-09-04 03:35 am UTC (link)
Mine too. But that doesn't mean she didn't do a great job tonight. And unfortunately, there are plenty of people who think a belief in creationism and a desire to ban books qualifies her for their vote.

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[info]alexkaufmann
2008-09-04 03:37 am UTC (link)
A belief in creationism should disqualify you from anything that involves the need for rational thought.

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[info]nick_kaufmann
2008-09-04 03:37 am UTC (link)
Or critical thinking, for that matter.

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[info]rosefox
2008-09-04 07:03 am UTC (link)
Do you expand that to encompass any sort of religious belief?

It's quite possible for one to believe in a creator and to acknowledge the existence of evolution. I'd say the literalists and fundamentalists are much more of a danger than the folks who have some vague idea that Someone or Something created the universe at some point.

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[info]alexkaufmann
2008-09-04 11:21 am UTC (link)
Do you expand that to encompass any sort of religious belief?

Nope. Just the one that says God created the Earth in seven days and that evolution is just a theory, therefore Creationism is just as likely.

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[info]possumqueen
2008-09-04 05:48 pm UTC (link)
God's all, "I'm bangin' you over the head with the enormous physical evidence preserved in the very fabric of the earth, and you still aren't listening to me?"

They're all: "Nopely dopely, Satan -- we know your deceivin' ways, plantin' them thar fake bones in the ground to test our faith and stuff! We cast thee out, in the name of the Lord. Fuck off, etc."

God's all, "::headdesk::"

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[info]vschanoes
2008-09-04 03:38 am UTC (link)
This was so not was he bargained for when he finally went all the way with his girlfriend.

Hee. Poor kids. I bet nobody ever told them about that risk in abstinence-ed: "And if you do Do It and you get knocked up, you and your boyfriend will have to be paraded in public at the RNC. The only way to avoid this horrible fate is to abstain!"

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[info]nick_kaufmann
2008-09-04 04:12 am UTC (link)
Or do it with a Democrat!

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[info]scottedelman
2008-09-04 03:47 am UTC (link)
It bugged me to even hear her refer to the United States, since (as far as I understand) she was a member of an organization in the '90s that advocated for the succession of Alaska from these United States.

Or am I just swallowing a rumor?

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[info]nick_kaufmann
2008-09-04 04:11 am UTC (link)
It looks like she was not a member, though she did speak at one of their meetings. Her husband, on the other hand, might be a different story.

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[info]rosefox
2008-09-04 04:13 am UTC (link)
The spokesperson for the AIP retracted her earlier statement that Palin was a member. She has given several speeches at their conventions, though, and her husband was a member until 2002.

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[info]rosefox
2008-09-04 04:15 am UTC (link)
I'm unsurprised that Palin did well, based on the speeches and interviews I've seen her give. The VP debate will be very interesting.

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[info]nick_kaufmann
2008-09-04 04:21 am UTC (link)
She proved she can hold her own very well. Which means the kid gloves are off when debating her.

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[info]rosefox
2008-09-04 06:59 am UTC (link)
Having watched the first chunk of it, she seems to have only one facial expression--though it's a good one--and she spent an awful lot of time introducing her family. I mean, she did it in a way that got a lot of cheers, but there was no substance there, no tying it in to who she is and what she can do.

It's fascinating to hear her call herself a "mom" over and over. I don't think we hear "dad" nearly that much from male politicians.

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[info]nick_kaufmann
2008-09-04 01:17 pm UTC (link)
She spent an awful lot of time introducing her family because she has an awfully big family. Let's face it, she spends a lot of baby-making time with her hot husband!

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[info]possumqueen
2008-09-04 02:46 pm UTC (link)
The nights are long and cold in Alaska. And what else is there to do?


Edited at 2008-09-04 02:48 pm UTC

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[info]nick_kaufmann
2008-09-04 03:06 pm UTC (link)
Aerial wolf hunts?

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[info]possumqueen
2008-09-04 04:22 pm UTC (link)
In the interest of fairness, Biden spent a good chunk of time introducing his family as well. :) And I love that you guys ARE being fair and open-minded toward people you disagree with and in many ways don't even like. It's incredibly hard to be objective under those circumstances and you are making the effort. We need more of that on both sides of the political aisle. Bitter partisan hatred - yes, HATRED - of half the American electorate gets us nowhere and accomplishes nothing! All you get is ridiculous trench warfare, back and forth.

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[info]rosefox
2008-09-04 04:41 pm UTC (link)
I think clear analysis of both sides is crucial. My knee still jerks on a few topics--mostly the death penalty, prison/drug law reform, sexual and marital freedom for consenting adults, and freedom of expression and assembly--but I try to be as open-minded as I can. It's too easy to get tripped up otherwise.

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[info]alexkaufmann
2008-09-04 11:23 am UTC (link)
The VP debate will be very interesting.

Sure will.

Especially if the democrats "misunderestimate" Sarah Palin.

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[info]burger_eater
2008-09-04 05:16 am UTC (link)
I would have called it a solid double, at best. Conventions have a lot of watching eyes, but the only ones you hear are cheering for you, and the pitcher is your kindly, slow-pitching uncle.

And that big dope that knocked up her daughter better watch his step. Mom-in-law has a vindictive streak.

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[info]nick_kaufmann
2008-09-04 01:19 pm UTC (link)
Oh yeah, conventions are all about preaching to the choir, but this was the country's first chance to really see Palin in action and I bet a lot of people tuned in for that. She performed for them too and I'm sure won over quite a few people who share her socially conservative policies but weren't sure who the heck she is.

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[info]vschanoes
2008-09-04 02:34 pm UTC (link)
I'm sure won over quite a few people who share her socially conservative policies but weren't sure who the heck she is.

Right, but those people were always going to vote McCain.

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[info]nick_kaufmann
2008-09-04 03:08 pm UTC (link)
I'm not so sure of that. I think she may have galvanized the far right, who were wary of McCain for whatever reason, and brought them to the ticket with this speech. I'm just guessing, though. We'll have to see how the next sixty days plays out, of course. There's still plenty of opportunity for either side to screw things up after their conventions.

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[info]possumqueen
2008-09-04 04:47 pm UTC (link)
I think she may have galvanized the far right, who were wary of McCain for whatever reason

McCain -- as hard as it may be for Democrats to believe -- is considered a spoiler and loose cannon within the core of his own party, because he has often refused to obey the party line. Many, many conservatives were pissed off that he won the nomination. However, it's good to remember that once you get away from that core constituency that you see at the convention, Republican voters are just as diverse in their opinions as Democrats are.

Spouse and I have long been dealing with family members who are of mixed political persuasions, some staunch conservatives and others equally staunch liberals. And we know plenty of other people who, like us, tend to agree with certain points from BOTH parties! It's pretty common in New England for people to be both fiscally conservative and socially liberal. For instance, in Massachusetts the majority are solidly for gay rights and are pro-choice, but just as solidly suspicious of unrestrained taxation. (It's because of past tax nightmares when no limits were in place. Yes, we're mainly Democrats here, but one-party rule has resulted in abusive laziness from our Democrats many times in the past when they felt untouchable, so we're wary now.)

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[info]possumqueen
2008-09-04 05:08 pm UTC (link)
There's still plenty of opportunity for either side to screw things up after their conventions.

From your lips to Comedy God's ear. ;)

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[info]burger_eater
2008-09-04 03:14 pm UTC (link)
Not necessarily. There has been a lot of talk about the cultural conservatives staying home this November. Palin might bring them out to the polls.

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[info]lokilokust
2008-09-04 07:01 pm UTC (link)
possibly, but i've been reading some of the far right messageboards since she was announced and an awful lot of those cultural conservatives are really dismayed at the thought of a woman being vice president.
(and an awful lot of them have been saying things like 'she should be home with her kids and not hussying about in politics.')

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[info]possumqueen
2008-09-04 08:50 pm UTC (link)
Oh gawd, those types are even more extreme than the convention delegates! Normal people are too busy working and taking care of their families to spew crap day and night on message boards. ;)

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[info]nick_kaufmann
2008-09-04 08:51 pm UTC (link)
*cough* Shocklines *cough*

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[info]possumqueen
2008-09-04 08:52 pm UTC (link)
LOL!

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[info]lokilokust
2008-09-04 09:01 pm UTC (link)
not even.
more like stormfront.
(although, to be honest, i wouldn't be at all surprised to see certain people on both.)

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[info]nick_kaufmann
2008-09-04 09:04 pm UTC (link)
That was meant as a reference to Alyson's statement "Normal people are too busy working and taking care of their families to spew crap day and night on message boards," not an indication of which boards you were talking about.

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[info]lokilokust
2008-09-04 09:06 pm UTC (link)
you shut your cracker mouth, fool.
(also, i see that now.)

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[info]contentlove
2008-09-04 08:02 am UTC (link)
Yes, let it be a lesson to the wise:

Do not fuck around with politicians (or their immediate family members) if you do not like heat, and while I'm on the subject, do not sell drugs to rock stars.

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[info]parttimedriver
2008-09-04 04:05 pm UTC (link)
The delivery of her speech was excellent; the content was apalling and confirmed my feeling that Palin is there not so much to court women as to appease the Republican base.

I, too noticed the boyfriend's deer-in-the-headlights look. I also noticed the contrast of the evening: the heartbreakingly pure moment when the youngest Palin daughter was holding their baby, stroking him, licking her palm to pat down his hair, as opposed to just before, when Dad dumped the baby off to the little girl like a sack of potatoes as soon as Mom started talking about him up on the podium. That one moment told me everything I need to know about dear old Dad.

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[info]rosefox
2008-09-04 04:42 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, I was pretty taken aback by that handoff. "They might applaud me, so I'll have to stand up and people will be taking photos! Can't have a baby in there!"

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[info]nick_kaufmann
2008-09-04 04:54 pm UTC (link)
Which is odd because the visual of him holding that baby while waving to the crowd might have put to rest all that "Who's going to take care of the baby?" nonsense.

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[info]possumqueen
2008-09-04 05:24 pm UTC (link)
Do you kiss good Democrats with that Republican-coddling mouth? ;)

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[info]nick_kaufmann
2008-09-04 05:30 pm UTC (link)
I don't even remember. I haven't kissed anyone in months!

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[info]possumqueen
2008-09-04 05:27 pm UTC (link)
The illegal immigrant Mexican nanny will take care of the little brat, cos that's what all evil capitalist Republicans do, idn't it?

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[info]nick_kaufmann
2008-09-04 05:30 pm UTC (link)
You're probably right, actually.

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